“I would describe myself as a friendly disruptor. And the people I probably give the most trouble to are those who are very set in their ways and their fixed mindset zone where innovation is hardly possible.”
Today we are joined by Tom Kegode, People, Comms, and Connections Lead at the Lloyds Banking Group. Calling himself a “friendly disruptor,” Tom is an expert in harnessing human innovation and the power of community to create a more inclusive workplace.
With Tom, we'll explore how to make work a place of passion, the importance of communication, and tools to make hybrid working as impactful as possible for both sides. Tom reveals why the best ideas don't come from behind a desk and talks about new approaches to brainstorming. For example, using a walking tour as an idea generator because getting out of the environment can spark creativity.
Below you will find the full transcript for the episode.
Professional troublemaker, friendly disruptor
Chris: Hi, and welcome back to Innovation Rockstars. My name is Chris Mühlroth, and in this episode, I am excited to welcome Tom Kegode. Tom, did I pronounce this correctly?
Tom: You did pronounce it correctly. Thank you very much, Chris. It's a pleasure to be with you today.
Chris: That’s great, Tom. So you joined Lloyds Banking Group in 2009 as a cashier, then quickly progressed to a highly varied and successful career across the organization. You're right now working with Lloyds people and leaders to create great places to work. And today, we'll talk about the toolbox for high-impact hybrid work. As always, we start straight away with a short 60-second introduction sprint. This is all about you, your career, and your current role. So, for the next 60 seconds, the virtual stage is all yours, Tom. Let's go.
Tom: Yeah, so I've been with the organization for the last 14 years this month. So quite some time. But I've had a number of different careers across the bank—Lloyds Banking Group, the largest digital retail commercial bank in the UK. I started as a cashier doing a number of roles across the branch network before I moved into what was sort of our innovation team in the digital part of the organization. I spent a significant amount of my time in the last five years leading our people in innovation activities as part of the digital transformation area of the bank. Then I moved across into what is now people and places. It is what it says on the tin, right? So it [looks at] “What are the buildings we've got? How do we make sure that we're creating the right environments for our people?” That's been leading throughout the pandemic. “How do we evolve the future of work? How do we lean into what's next for work and hybrid working and start to shape what comes next?” Really exciting to be involved in such a sort of topic—as a workplace nerd, as I would class myself. It's a really interesting space to be in at the moment.
Chris: It certainly is. And for everybody who can not see the video stream right now: Tom, what does your hoodie say? I love it.
Tom: My hoodie says, "Grow with purpose." So we are on a journey at Lloyds Banking Group. We're emerging, and our key areas across our strategy are around growth, focus, and change—which is a real change for us. One of the things that we're doing is putting all of our leaders through this program of "grow with purpose" and talking about how we start to shift from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset. And start to think about what we need to do to be in that growth phase. So this lovely hoodie, which has got a splash of color on the back of it, is from one of those [programs], to create that culture movement.
Chris: That's pretty cool. Let's continue to get to know you just a little better. Tom, I do have three sentence starters for you. I would like you to complete those sentences. So I start the sentence, and you complete it. Number one: The one thing I do every day that sets me up for success is…
Tom: I like to go for a walk. I live by the coast—as you may hear with some of the seagulls we've already heard this morning. I live in Plymouth in the southwest [of the UK]. So when I'm working from home, I always try and get out to see the sea, just to be by it gives me that kind of sense of calm and that sense of reflection. There's a lot of stuff that's a lot bigger than you here. So get out to the sea or go for a walk wherever I can.
Chris: That's great to hear. Number two: The book I have given most as a gift to someone is…
Tom: Reaching over to my bookshelf—live and in the moment—this is the book that I've given the most to people. It's called “The Joy of Work” by Bruce Daisley. I [did] a lot of work with Bruce when he first launched this. And back in 2019, we did some work with him at Lloyds as well on what was #BrightBlueMonday. I think it's just a really simple guide to how you can do things and make an impact quickly with his 30 ways to fall in love with your job again.
"My mantra is: if we spend so much time at work, we need to make sure that we're having a good time."
My mantra is: if we spend so much time at work, we need to make sure that we're having a good time. This is a really practical toolkit for people to use and to take away. So highly recommend the Sunday Times Bestseller “The Joy of Work” by Bruce Daisley.
Chris: Thanks for that, and [I’ll] definitely take that book recommendation for myself as well. Finally, number three: One thing I am excited about this year, either personally or professionally, is…
Tom: Professionally, it's another really interesting transition year that we're entering for the workforce and workplace society. I think we're starting to see so many changes when it comes to people reimagining the way that they use offices. I think hybrid working, in particular, continues to evolve. And we're at another turning point, again, where people are starting to think, “Okay, we've been in this for a year now…” I'm already seeing those kinds of changes, where people are starting to take active steps to spend more time connecting in person, and they're really seeing the value. We've just done two large conferences over the last two weeks with different teams in the bank. And that element of connection is the first time they've been coming back together. That is really exciting for me. So much of the magic that happens at work happens when we're connecting in a social environment. I really think that there's going to be a lot more socializing going on as we go through it. I think it's going to be a great summer. I think we'll see lots of barbecues.
Chris: I'm pretty sure. Talking about social environments: Tom, I found your Twitter account. And on your Twitter page, you describe yourself as a professional troublemaker, disrupting traditional ways of doing stuff—stuff in quotes—through #innovation. Let's talk about that. Who do you give the most trouble to? And how?
Tom: Who do I give the most trouble to? So I would describe myself as a friendly disrupter. Right? I question everything. If someone tells me something can't be done, I don't believe them. I think there are always ways to do that. And the people I probably give the most trouble to are the people that are very set in their ways and in that fixed mindset zone. People that tell me, “Well, we've always done things this way.” I just don't believe that is a credible answer. I will find ways to take action. Another one of my straplines that I like to talk about and use is: move fast and do the right thing. If we can see an opportunity to make a change and make a difference, [then] we need to make that move fast. We haven't got the time to wait for this. Today's the slowest it's ever going to be in our lifetime—the pace of change we're seeing, the compressing time horizon. So I think I'm a troublemaker for a lot of people, but hopefully in a friendly way. And hopefully disrupting their thinking in a way that makes them think, “Oh, there's another opportunity to do things in a slightly different way here.”
Chris: Tom, can you provide an example of a traditional way of doing stuff that you have friendly disrupted? Just any example that comes to your mind?
Tom: Yeah, so for me, a classic way of disrupting a traditional approach is through communications. So often, we believe we have to communicate in a certain way. We have a sort of mindset that we have to go through certain hoops to do certain things. And I think actually if you can open up communications as a tool—so using tools to make things asynchronous, using tools in a way that enables anybody to be involved in the work if it's possible. So many times, we work in a kind of defensive way when we don't need to. And that's the biggest [approach to disrupt] for me. One of the ways that I've done that, instead of trying to put meetings upon meetings in people's calendars, I say, “What we're going to do here is [create an] open chat. You can all be part of this.” Status updates will be pushed into this mechanism, and I run a whole program like that. So when we first introduced coming back to offices, we had a very small team—and by very small, I mean, it was a team of one, just me—looking at how do we start this kind of work-reconnected movement, where we speak to all colleagues and encourage that connection and community. And it just simply wasn't feasible to have calls to engage people on specific things. That would have taken up all my time, and I wouldn't be able to do the work that I was looking to do. So I found that solution, using that asynchronous way of communicating, everyone remains in the loop because everyone wants to be in the loop. You can make sure that people are getting the information they need, but they can also dip into it. It nudges those behavioral changes that we want to see as well.
Reimagining work-life harmony
Chris: Let's talk about hybrid work for a minute or two. So you're calling in from home right now, a beautiful place near the coast. That's great. We've also seen some leading organizations call everyone back to the office, right? So take Tesla CEO—it was in mid-2022. And just recently, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy, in early March 2023, calling people back to offices now. Let's talk about hybrid work for just a bit. Why do we actually need hybrid work?
"There's a shift where we've seen the movement from what was work-life balance. I've started talking a lot more about work-life harmony because these things are not trade-offs, one against the other."
Tom: I think we've realized the benefits of flexibility over the last few years. There's a shift where we've seen the movement from what was work-life balance. I've started talking a lot more about work-life harmony because these things are not trade-offs, one against the other. And that's where hybrid work enables that level of flexibility for us to really prioritize both the things that are meaningful for us in our personal lives and what's meaningful for us in our work lives as well. That kind of flexibility—once you've had a taste of that—it's really difficult to change. And we need to prioritize that. But I also think offices have a really, really key part to play in the future of work. They really do. So we are investing in our office estate and our office buildings across the UK to make them great places to go. The difference here is that our offices need to be hubs that you look forward to going to, where you can supercharge your activities via that human connection. We started in the early days of the pandemic, talking about how offices were a place where we go to collaborate. I became convinced that that's a myth, right? Because we go to offices for a sense of human connection, we go to an office for a sense of community. If we have those two things: human connection plus community equals collaboration. So collaboration is always the byproduct of those two things. It's how we make sure that our offices are now set up for that. People don't want to go to offices where you've got a postage-stamp-size monitor, right? I've spotted a few of those monitors still knocking around and all kinds of things that don’t work. The other thing is, because we had to move so quickly during the pandemic, we were able to set our teams up with really excellent work-from-home spaces. So they had the technology, they had the kit, the environment. I'm at a standing desk right now in my home office. This was something that we were able to mobilize for our teams. And for the people that needed them for home, to make sure they had a safe environment. So that's another really interesting one because it's that concept of health and safety and well-being that kind of bleeds now into the home. That's another reason why offices will play such an important part because we recognize that right across our organization, we have people at very different life stages. We have people with very different sorts of living arrangements, [for example] multiple generations in a household, you may be living in one room, right? When you think about how that impacts you and your work-life harmony. If you are eating in the same room as you're sleeping and you're working, then actually it's really, really important to have somewhere else where you can go. That other space where you can go. This is why we really believe that offices will be a key part of the future. But they just need to be excellent.
Chris: I 100% agree with the first point you made about work-life balance. Sorry for the word, but I think it's a bullshit discussion. Achieving a work-life balance is not a good thing. Because what you do is actually balance pain—which is [assumed to be] work—and pleasure, which is life. It becomes a zero-sum game. But that doesn't make any sense. Why would you balance work if you actually have fun doing work or have a good time doing work? Why balance that? I never got this discussion. So I 100% agree with that [point].
Tom: Absolutely. We want to try and create an organization and a place where people come to work [and] really love what they do. That's what we want to do. We are a large financial institution in a really interesting, exciting phase. But we've got around 58,000 colleagues, all with very different needs and requirements. We want to make sure that we've got a real purpose. Helping Britain prosper is our purpose. And that means something to the people. We want to make sure that people really feel connected to that purpose and are really excited and happy and love to come to work here. It's a combination of creating the right environments for that to happen and for people to thrive and providing the right opportunities for people to develop their skills with us. Also, looking at how to create the propositions from a people perspective that are fit for this next stage of our journey.
Chris: Absolutely. If you feel so exhausted after work, if you need to balance what you're doing during work time, go work somewhere else. That just doesn't work out.
Tom: Exactly. And one of the things we've realized is the concept of VUCA—volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity—is only going to rise. We saw across the global workforce people making decisions and post-pandemic thinking, “I want to make a change to my life.” I think that will continue. People will [ask themselves], “What is it I want to do? What gives me purpose—my own personal purpose? And how do I find something that gives me joy and find a place that I love to work?” That's what we're trying to create at Lloyds Banking Group, a place where colleagues and people love to work and want to come and work with us.
Chris: Absolutely. And let’s go down the rabbit hole and talk about some of the tools that you actually deployed or are deploying to make hybrid work impactful for both sides. But before we do that, let's play a quick game, Tom. The game is called Either-Or. It’s really simple. I give you two options, and you choose one of the options and then spend one or two sentences each to briefly explain your choice. The key is speed—not thinking too much, but just shoot. Number one is tied to what we had in the beginning. Which one is more important to you, either having a morning or an evening routine to set you up for success?
Tom: I think, for me, the evening routine is very different from the morning routine. The morning routine sets me up for the day. And I work better in the evening. So my evening wind-down routine is not as important as getting myself out and in the sun in the morning. So the morning routine is the one for me.
Chris: Cool. If you had to choose one in the future: back to the physical office 100% or working in the metaverse 100%?
Tom: Back to physical offices 100%.
Chris: Okay. And finally, would you rather live in a world with no social media or no music streaming services?
Tom: Oh, that's a tricky one. I would have to say no social media, cuz I'm a DJ also. Music is so important to me in so many ways. I listen to music all the time. Probably my most used app is Spotify.
A toolbox for high-impact hybrid work
Chris: Let's get back to the toolbox. Let's talk about the toolbox for high-impact hybrid work. Let's maybe talk about a few concrete examples of tools that you already have tried or that you recommend for high-impact hybrid work and how you've deployed them in practice. Maybe two or three examples that you’ve used and that listeners can take away from this episode with you.
Tom: From a toolkit perspective, I think there are a couple of things. Line managers need to be able to have conversations. Building that ability to have empathetic conversations on a personal level is really important. One of the ways we did that was to encourage ways-of-working conversations to happen both on an individual level and a team level. It’s how you strike the balance. So we shared a framework for those conversations that talks about what's right for the individual, what's right for the team, and what's right for the organization. It's striking that balance and getting the sweet spot in the middle. And line managers are critical in those conversations and understanding that—but also having the ability to use their own pragmatism in certain situations and scenarios. That's a key one: upskilling and giving your line managers and your leaders the ability and support to have those conversations in the right way is first and foremost—starting with people. The other part of that toolkit will be the workplace itself. Enabling people to do the work from wherever. You've got that expectation around how you work, so you can start to set up workplace principles that will enable that flexibility—that built-in approach to hybrid working.
"We need to think about all the elements of our work in terms of end-to-end journeys. And by building in hybridity throughout, we can make sure that everybody's getting the best out of these experiences."
I've been using a word a lot recently—I just say hybridity. I don't know if it's a word, but I'm using it. When I talk about hybridity, it doesn't just mean at home or in an office. We need to think about the hybridity of our meetings, for example. I'll give you an example. If you think about a meeting, how do we make sure that the end-to-end journey of that experience has hybridity built into it? Say we've got an ideation workshop taking place on Tuesday. We might set that up on a Monday or potentially the week before. So we set that up in a virtual channel. We start the conversation in a virtual channel, and we ask people to start to submit their ideas there. Then we follow up in that ideation session with semi-formed ideas and have a richer conversation. You're able to start to think about how you engage an inclusive population of people in that meeting. From a neuro-diverse perspective, some people will much prefer to have the opportunity to reflect and think about those ideas, then come and have a richer conversation. You need to think about that end-to-end journey. We need to think about all the elements of our work in terms of end-to-end journeys. And by building in hybridity throughout, we can make sure that everybody's getting the best out of these experiences. Rather than just putting a meeting in and thinking we’ll just go there and come up with ideas, where can technology support us? And our learnings from the last two years of hybrid working can support us in making a more inclusive experience for all.
Chris: That's really interesting. Because one thing we figured out quite fast after moving to home office only, and then hybrid, is the issue of creativity. You know, obviously, creativity is being fostered way easier in front of a coffee machine when you’re meeting a colleague or drawing something on the whiteboard. And talking about that in a room where the energy is just different than sitting in front of a screen. So that's one of the issues we figured out in hybrid [working]. So what can we do about that? What can we do in the hybrid setting to actually foster creativity and innovation? Is it that you design things on purpose to help creativity? How do you do that?
Tom: I think there are a couple of ways. From an innovation background, I've always been very thoughtful about ideation and how we can bring everybody involved into this conversation. So one of the things we did learn when we were working in a much more virtual environment was that it kind of democratized some of that creativity and innovation. Because you didn't need to be in that room, you could be in that room from wherever you were. One of the things I did was a series of meetings—really short, sharp workshops that I would call an “ideation kickabout.” It was a 30-minute slot, [in] which we covered three big questions. We'd be working with somebody from a part of the business that needed feedback from colleagues on those big questions. So one of them, for example, was our offices of the future and this concept of a destination office, which is how we've started to shape what our strategy looks like now. But what we would do is keep it really simple. I think there's often a lot of [times when] we can default to a tool to do something. Where actually, we want to get people to be creative in the tool that they're in rather than focusing on using that particular tool. For example, there are plenty of whiteboard apps out there. We use Microsoft whiteboard. But for a lot of people, they're not necessarily up to speed with that. So they've got to get up to speed with that, then write their idea.
"By building creativity into the workflow, rather than trying to direct people to specific platforms, we remove that extra element of friction to getting an idea out on the table. We want to try to make it as easy as possible."
However, what we found is that people were using Microsoft Teams on a daily basis. It was integrated into their ways of working. So we would do the ideation in the chat; it's live in the channel, so you don't have to move out of there; you can just drop a comment. We'll say, “This is the big question. What do you think?” We want to hear from you; we want to make it inclusive. Raise your hand to give your idea, and share your feedback. But also, we really want to see your comments in the chat. So we've got a multi-channel way of capturing that creativity from the room and the ideas that are coming through from them. By building creativity into the workflow, rather than trying to direct people to specific platforms, we remove that extra element of friction to getting an idea out on the table. We want to try to make it as easy as possible.
Chris: I was just about to ask him that. How can organizations ensure that innovation efforts—might be ideation might be different things—are actually integrated with day-to-day business operations rather than seen as separate or even competing priorities?
Tom: I think it's how you build that into your mindset. That's where that kind of growth mindset comes in, right? How do we start to build that into our thinking? If we've got a team that is looking at product development and design, how do they build [that mindset] into their daily rhythms, capturing ideas and ideation? Is it that at the end of their stand-up, there's a quick round of ideas, or they have a place where they can jot down a collective whiteboard of big moonshot ideas that [they’d] love to do? It's just building it into the rhythms and building it into your existing ways of working and processes.
Chris: That's the thing because, honestly, the best ideas I’ve had, I didn't come up with them from in front of a screen. Doesn’t happen. It’s in the shower, on a walk, or while reading a book on the couch with a glass of wine, or whatever—it doesn't really matter. But it's not in front of the screen. It's not in a structured step-by-step ideation session moderated in front of some digital whiteboard, for example.
Tom: Exactly, and I think there are a couple of other tips and tricks that I would say. One of those is—you're completely right—you never have the best idea at your desk. Right? The other thing is to keep them short, sharp, and punchy. What I want after an ideation session, well, what happens quite often is that [people say], “I'm not sure this is long enough,” because people are used to hour-long meetings. I want people leaving those sessions thinking: “That was amazing. That was so fast. The energy that I felt there—I'm excited about the ideas that were discussed.” So how do you make it as punchy as you possibly can? In 30 minutes, 25 minutes? That's the kind of time you want. Also, how do you start to inspire that creativity by the mechanism of the meeting? It may be that you actually say: “We're going to do a creative session or thought session. I'd love this to be a walking meeting. So all of you get out and about.” It's in the summer, so let's all go for our individual walks. We'll do it on a call. We can have one person scribing. And we'll all go out and sort of walk and take inspiration from our surroundings. Or do we do that as a walking meeting collectively, and we set a space where we want to go? Do we do a meeting in the park in the summer? That's one of the best team meetings that we had—it was the innovation team in a park in central London in the summer. And we did it as almost a bit of a picnic. But we had some team building in there; we had a bit of ideation and talked about some of the work that we were doing. Taking yourself out of [the office] environment really does help to spark that creativity. You're completely right.
The future of hybrid work and innovation
Chris: We can't look into the future. But if we look toward the future. Personal opinion: what is your vision for the evolution of hybrid work? Let's say a couple of years from now. And also innovation in the workplace? And how do you see these concepts evolving and shaping the way how we work?
Tom: Yes, so personally, I think hybrid will continue to evolve. There are so many external factors that will continue to impact that. I don't believe that flexibility will go; I think that flexibility will only increase, and be [even] less rigid. So we'll have that day-to-day level of flexibility. I'm really interested in the concept of asynchronous working. I think that's something we'll definitely see rise. I think there's gonna be some real opportunities when it comes to some of the AI solutions that we're now starting to see come into the market. What fascinates me about the journey that we've been on over the last couple of years is that typically, as an innovation person, I would talk in horizons, right? Horizons one, two, and three. What I'm now seeing is that those horizons are starting to become compressed. We're starting to see things that we would have thought would be horizon two or horizon three, just go straight to market, straight to the user. I'm thinking about Open AI and ChatGPT, for example. But also the ability of people to pivot and change their [value] proposition—again, something we learned throughout the pandemic. There are all these trends where we saw gin distilleries switch to making hand sanitizer overnight. People have now realized they can react and change. So that VUCA element before was this thing we talked about, and we now know we can operate within. I think that's really exciting because it means that we're going to start to see that shift across multiple ways of working.
"We are at what I would probably describe now as hybrid 2.0. There will likely be a 3.0 and a 4.0. And the factors that sit around that will determine what those look like."
I think communities will continue to rise in offices. I think that offices will start to become more of a hub within the local communities that they serve. So we'll start to see them being more multipurpose—and how do we bring communities into those as well. There's a range of opportunities, which are all based on learning. I really believe it will continue to change. We are at what I would probably describe now as hybrid 2.0. There will likely be a 3.0 and a 4.0. And the factors that sit around that will determine what those look like. But now we've realized that we can adapt, and we've realized that we can change. It's only going to be more of an opportunity to continue with that experimental mindset.
Chris: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, talking about hand sanitizers, I had Distell and Caroline Snyman, who is the Group Innovation Leader at Distell, also in the podcast. She was exactly sharing that story, how they moved in weeks—1, 2, 3 weeks, or whatever—from building one of the world's most admired alcoholic beverages to actually producing hand sanitizer during the pandemic. Exactly that story.
Tom: Yeah. And it's that concept of swarming around things. This is the thing we're getting with innovation, right? Crisis drives innovation. It’s easy to innovate when we're in crisis mode. The real magic is to be able to keep that pace and energy and urgency when you haven't got that crisis that chasing you down. For example, we were able to see teams come together and achieve things we never would have thought would be possible—mobilizing teams to work from home overnight, right? When I'm thinking about contact centers full of people where we never would have thought that would have been possible before. But bringing different teams together, the right expertise, giving them the empowerment and the accountability to make the decisions that [are] needed to get the work done, speeds up [and] removes waste in the process. It's how we make sure that we continue with that same momentum as we move into the next phase.
Chris: Tom, we're close to the end of this episode. Let's try to summarize for listeners. What are the three key actionable recommendations that you want listeners to take away from this episode with you?
Tom: I think the first one is—and it's something that I always say—be curious. Be curious about what's going on in the workplace. Be curious about what's going on with your people. Be curious about the leaders that you have in your organization and how you help to set them up for success. Think about all of those things in terms of curiosity. Think about the role that the office plays. And really start to think about how you define those key purposes and what gets done where. What's best done at home? What's best done in the office? And how does that hybrid scale look?
"We need to continue this experimental mindset, have fun, and be prepared. And create an environment where it's safe for people to come with ideas, test them, and perhaps fail—that’s the first step in learning."
I think the final thing I would say: have fun along the way. We need to continue to test and learn. We need to continue this experimental mindset, have fun, and be prepared. And create an environment where it's safe for people to come with ideas, test them, and perhaps fail—that’s the first step in learning. Think about how we are able to create those environments that enable people to come with ideas, test them, learn, and either move them forward or drop them in a really quick way. We need to keep that pace and energy going as well. Have fun, fast.
Chris: Exactly. That's the thing. I totally agree. Finally, Tom, before we close, if you look back on your professional career, what was your greatest Innovation Rockstar moment to date?
Tom: Innovation Rockstar moment, I think for me, was when I hosted an innovation community event back in 2018. It was the first of its type that we'd done, where we brought across innovators, both from inside the organization and outside the organization, together to really talk about innovation. It was one of my favorite stages that I've ever had—I think it was a round stage. So I was able to walk around hosting the event. We had multiple streams of workshops, practicals, keynotes, roundtables, and a live hackathon that ran throughout as well. Then they pitched at the end [to] panels and external speakers. We did it with this concept of nurturing innovation. It was in the Royal Horticultural Society in London. That [event] and having that circular stage that I could walk around and give a keynote on was probably the rockstar moment for me.
Chris: That's the thing because the rockstar moment often happens on a stage, right? So if it's even a circular stage, even better. Congratulations on that rockstar moment. And that's it. Tom, we reached the end of this episode. Thanks so much again for being my guest on this episode. It was a pleasure to listen to you, and to learn from the tools in Lloyds Banking Group’s toolbox. Certainly, there are maybe one or two tools for every listener to take away and foster innovation, fuel innovation, and make sure hybrid work has the highest impact possible. Thanks for being my guest, Tom.
Tom: Thank you very much. Great to have a conversation.
Chris: Alright, and for everybody listening or watching, if you enjoyed this episode, simply leave us a comment on this episode or drop us an email at email@example.com. Now that's it. Thanks for listening. Take care, and bye-bye.
Tom’s book recommendation, "The Joy of Work," is a simple guide for making a real impact on your work culture, along with 30 ways to fall in love with your job again.
About the authors
Dr. Christian Mühlroth is the host of the Innovation Rockstars podcast and CEO of ITONICS. Tom Kegode is the People, Comms, and Connections Lead at the Lloyds Banking Group.
The Innovation Rockstars podcast is a production of ITONICS, provider of the world’s leading Innovation Operating System. Do you also have an inspiring story to tell about innovation, foresight, strategy, or growth? Then shoot us a note!
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