"No technology is ever going to make an impact today unless somebody is going to make money from it. And that's the cold hard reality."
In this episode, we welcome Prof. Dr. Andy Wynn, CEO TTIP Global, Professor @ IE Business School in Madrid, and professional globetrotter. Facing Andy’s decades of international business and innovation expertise, we explore the critical lessons gleaned from his global experiences—adaptability, problem-solving, and the power of networking. Key for listeners, Andy emphasizes how these skills are indispensable for anyone looking to thrive in today’s fast-paced business environment. We also discuss the often-underestimated importance of commercializing innovation, and how it overshadows the mere cultivation of a so-called innovation culture. Plus, Andy shares some personal anecdotes about transitioning from a corporate setting to launching successful businesses.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights for aspiring innovators and entrepreneurs seeking practical advice on navigating the complexities of global business and making impactful decisions.
Below you will find the full transcript for the episode.
Some insights about Andy
Chris: This is the Innovation Rockstars podcast, where we share unfiltered conversations about all things innovation with leading minds who are shaping the future. So my name is Chris Mühlroth and with me today I have Andy. Andy Wynn. Andy has a PhD in chemistry. He's the CEO of TTIP Global and a professor at the IE Business School in Madrid, where he's teaching digital transformation and digital innovation in their MBA programs. And he's also a former CTO of a multinational manufacturer of advanced materials. Under his leadership, he has had over 1 billion in new technologies commercialized you've also written a series of books on technology commercialization, transforming technology into profit. So that's an amazing track record. Thanks for joining me. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.
Andy: Thanks, Chris. Thanks for inviting me. It's certainly a pleasure to talk to you today.
Chris: All right, so Andy, as a Brit who spent six years in China and has now lived in Spain for over six years, what has living and working overseas taught you the most?
Andy: That's certainly an interesting question, Chris. I recently reached my sixth anniversary here in Spain last December. So that was a milestone that caused me to reflect. Why do I do this? Why do I hop from country to country? And certainly, what does overseas life teach you? And I think it's taught me three main things. So first of all, I think living in different countries and cultures, it teaches you adaptability. You've got to navigate new environments. You've got situations that challenge your own cultural norms. So you discover people with different attitudes, different mindsets, and different ways of doing things. So if you want to survive and not only survive, if you want to thrive, you've got to build the ability to embrace change. And that's a skill I think is invaluable in today's business landscape. So as you experience the world firsthand, of course, you build a global mindset and that broadens your worldview. And it helps to build a deep appreciation for cultural diversity and inclusivity. So that's number one. I think number two, what are the other things it teaches you? The second one, I'd say, living overseas teaches you enhanced problem-solving skills. So the diverse challenges that you encounter working in different countries, really are masterclasses in problem-solving. Not only do you need to negotiate those cultural differences, but you also have to deal with different bureaucracies, and tax systems, alone, of course, the language barriers and a lot of unfamiliar business practices.
And all of these things force you to think creatively. Now I've set up businesses and built factories all over the world. So you're dealing with local government, you're dealing with local business community. I recall one particular project in China. I had the local mafia wanting the land that I purchased next door. So how do you deal with that one? When you're living and working in different countries, you encounter situations that make you feel if I could deal with that, you can deal with anything. And I think the third thing that overseas living teaches you is the value of building relationships. You cannot succeed on your own. You need help. The relationships that I forged during my time in China, in Spain, and the other countries where I've done business, extend far beyond just professional connections. Global living naturally builds a diverse network and one outside your own business and industry sector. And that opens up tremendous opportunities. I certainly would not have launched the businesses I have today since I left the corporate world if it wasn't for the people I've met overseas and those relationships I built.
"If you want to survive and not only survive, if you want to thrive, you've got to build the ability to embrace change."
Chris: And that very journey is actually very, you know, it's quite remarkable. So your journey from delivering business growth through new technologies in, you know, FTSE 250 companies to co-founding ventures in renewable energy and also pollution control. And that's very interesting. Oftentimes, you know, this comes with some moment, with some pivotal moment that typically triggers this transition from the corporate world, delivering growth in the business context and global companies to starting your own ventures. So in your case, what was that pivotal moment that led you to where you are today?
Transition from Corporate to Entrepreneurship
Andy: Well, Chris, I took the classic career path of someone out of university in the 80s and 90s. So I joined a multinational - a UK-based public limited company in my case - and I did the classic thing of working my way up the corporate ladder. So I started as a technologist. I moved into business management. I became CTO of the group. So I did 30 years in a corporate career. The last six of those were in China. I was building factories, setting up new businesses, and transferring technology from the West to the East. So I think the pivotal moment for me was when I was recalled back to the mothership, back to the UK, I decided I just couldn't go back. I couldn't go back to my old hands, back to my old job. I think innovators by our very nature, want to do new things, you need to do new things. And I had to search for that new thing. Now I ended up moving to Spain, to Marbella, a place I'd never actually been to in my life. I think, how we ended up here is maybe a story for another day. So the corporate world is a great learning journey as you climb that corporate ladder. So I learned a lot. I made many friends. You see the world. I had a great time. But eventually, you've seen it all. There's nowhere left to go that isn't more of the same. So eventually, the corporate environment limits you. It's great. The journey's great, but ultimately it's self-limiting. So I had a decision to make. Do I join another corporate or do I take what I've learned to do something new? So that first summer when I moved to Spain with my wife, I think that was 2018. So I started reflecting on my corporate career, and I was thinking about what did I do in my corporate career that I enjoyed, and what did I do that I did not enjoy. One thing I enjoyed, I decided was I like standing on a stage and talking to people.
So I started to speak at lots of industry events, which led to some speaking gigs at corporate events. I decided I enjoyed working with new talent, mentoring up and coming professionals. So I launched a training company for technology and innovation talent with a group of colleagues. And that became what is now TTIP Global. I also decided I wanted to try to capture what I've learned in 30 years of innovation. So I wrote this series of business books. There was transforming technology into profits, cracking the innovation code, and building an innovation powerhouse. And so all of this speaking, training, writing, it all built up to, I started teaching MBA at a number of business schools. And that eventually led to the faculty position I now have at IE Business School. But above all, I decided the one thing I really enjoyed the most was building businesses and creating something truly new. And I'd done it plenty of times inside the company I'd worked for all those years. So why not for myself? So that's what I've spent the last five years doing, creating this series of businesses. We talked a little about TTIP Global. We call ourselves the technology commercialization experts. Then came Pure Emissions where we're bringing emissions control and carbon capture technology to the shipping industry. And most recently we have a blockchain business, Block Capital. And I think the important thing for me is all of these different business ventures, they're with different groups of people. They're all completely separate. And of course, it gets me to play in completely different industry sectors. So exciting times.
"Innovators by our very nature want to do new things; you need to do new things. And I had to search for that new thing."
Chris: It's interesting if you look at this from an innovation perspective, but also from, you know, the business perspective, because especially in large companies, innovation - so creating something new - that can turn and can be a new business, but innovation is often celebrated for its aspects around creativity, also collaboration for sure. But the process of commercializing these innovations, so really turning them into profitable ventures, is not always as widely discussed as maybe the creativity or the culture aspect. But of course, commercialization is crucial for business growth and sustainability of the business as well. So it can be overshadowed by this ideation phase of innovation, the collaboration phase, and the discussion around culture. So what we've discussed, Andy, prior to this episode is that after more than 30 years in business, you actually decided to mostly drop the word innovation from your business vocabulary. Why is that?
Commercialization Over Innovation
Andy: Sure. So I think, what is innovation in a business context? You've talked about it. Is it the creation of the ideas, or is it the delivery of those ideas? So what I found is that depending on where people sit in their organization, they have different answers. Now, it's all correct. No one's right or wrong, but it really doesn't help because it makes innovation kind of confusing fluffy, and nebulous. But I think those of us like yourself, Chris, those who exist in this world, people who write, who teach a bit of innovation, you understand that the process of taking ideas to reality, is a well-documented series of steps and one that involves all functions of an organization. So when I started TTIP Global, we did start out as an innovation consultancy, but I soon found that the world is full of innovation consultants, innovation advisors, and lots of people with innovation in their job title. And unfortunately, usually, people who've never led or built a business themselves, and sometimes many with no practical experience of business at all. So I found it kind of a frustrating and muddy place to exist in. So we had a strategy review.
We tried to decide what are we actually trying to achieve. What's the value that we actually add to our clients? And we realized that what we actually do is we help commercialize new products and take new technologies to market to make money. Now that's a much more practical and business-oriented challenge. And one that all of our team are experts in. All my colleagues had long corporate careers like myself. So we've all got plenty of successes and failures along the way to learn from. And that's what we pass on. We pass on our know-how, the tools and techniques for success that we built up along the way. And of course, the huge network of contacts we have around the world. Plus, everyone on our team, they've all built their own business. So we now call ourselves the technology commercialization experts. And we believe that's an area no one can touch us in.
Chris: And with that number that I've mentioned previously, right, with over a billion in, you know, new technologies commercialized under your leadership in your career so far, what would you say, Andy, what key strategies have you found most effective in bridging that gap, right? Between, you know, groundbreaking technology, doesn't have to be groundbreaking all the time, but new technology and innovation and market success. What are the key strategies for bridging that gap?
"You've got to pick the right team early on. You can't keep anyone on board who isn't 100% dedicated to working with you and delivering the same goal as you. Otherwise, it just saps the energy of you and the team. And you end up wasting all that time and energy on this kind of internal fighting. "
Andy: I think there's a couple of things that spring to mind, Chris, that are essential. I think the first key to success, in my experience, is that you've got to approach the new technology like you're starting a business. It doesn't matter if you're working inside a multinational or if you're setting out to create your own business as a spin-out or entrepreneur. You have to approach it in the same way. And I think on reflection, my own career successes came when I had that freedom and supportive environment to grow as a business. But of course, in a large organization, your environment is often fighting against you. I recall one occasion in my career, I was the Chief Technology Officer of the Asia region. And my boss, who was the regional president, told me off for visiting customers. He told me that's not my job as the CTO. And I just thought “Really?”. So I found also in my early career as a technologist, you can be beaten down, you're squeezed into a pigeonhole and you're asked to provide the innovation.
But you're not taken seriously when you want to take that innovation to market. And for me, that is a definite route to failure for any new product. And I think the second key strategy for success is one thing I've learned you've got to pick the right team early on. You can't keep anyone on board who isn't 100% dedicated. to working with you and delivering the same goal as you. Otherwise, it just saps the energy of you and the team. And you end up wasting all that time and energy on this kind of internal fighting. And I've experienced that every single time I've set up my own business. Some members of that original founding team, don't last beyond the first few months or the first year. But you also find that when you're working inside a large organization as well, you need to make the hard decisions early on about whether you're working with the right people or not.
"You need to make the hard decisions early on about whether you're working with the right people or not."
Chris: And let's talk about that people's perspective for a moment, because it's crucial, as you said, to success. What do you believe is maybe the most or one of the most underappreciated but essential skills for transitioning from innovation to commercialization in those multinational or global environments? What are the skills that one needs to do that?
Andy: Okay, so when you're inside a large complex organization, of course, you're surrounded by people, people you need to work with to get your job done. And if your job is taking innovation to market, then you're going to need to interact with all sorts of people. So the operations manager, the sales manager, the marketing director, the finance guy, legal, CEO, CTO, et cetera, et cetera. Depending on the nature of your role, you might be working with investors or with external suppliers, customers, et cetera. Local government, if you're going to build a factory. Now that's a huge amount of people, all with different backgrounds and all with different objectives. And all of them have a role in making your project a success or not. So depending on how you work with them, they can be a tremendous asset to getting your product to market, or they can be the biggest pain in the ass and that causes your project to crash and burn. So for me, the most underappreciated skill in commercializing innovations is how to influence decision-makers.
Chris: And that is key. So how do you do that? I mean, you said it very, very nicely. You said they all have different goals. They probably have different agendas. They're all looking for something different. I mean, sure, for example, a salesperson is looking after sales quotas and delivery of the sales goals. It might be different for a CEO. It might be totally different if goals are not aligned, which often is the case for a CTO or an engineering team. And then, of course, you have marketing or product marketing that should contribute to that. But again, they look at different metrics than, for example, the CTO. So it sounds like an alignment problem to some degree in aligning not necessarily the goals and the job descriptions, but aligning those key decision makers that you have along the way towards making this happen. So how do you do that? How do you align this innovation or technology commercialization thing, especially within large organizations and or, if I may add that, also now involving external parties when you talk open innovation, when you talk local governments or even suppliers and partners? That seems like a huge alignment issue.
Andy: There is, you're right, Chris, you've got to find common ground for sure. And the key is always empathy. You've got to put yourself in the other person's shoes. As you've just listed, every person with a different role has to achieve something different. What drives these people? And once you understand that, you have a chance to influence them. You've got to understand what their objectives are. So to give you an example, a common scenario we ask to help with is when people have to present to the board. So you've got the CEO, the CFO, CTO, the HR lead, and anyone who sits on the board. So typically somebody in an organization, you have to go and present because you've got to win their commitment to launch a project, get a CAPEX approved or approve some technology pipeline, something like that. So how do people normally approach this? So you want to get buy-in to your plan.
So what do you do? You try to think of everything, every little detail, every pro, every con. You come up with lots of spreadsheets, all the numbers. Furthermore, you have your huge hundred-page PowerPoint presentation, everything in exhaustive detail. And you stand in front of them and you present. And you are there to try and show them how clever, how thoughtful, how capable you are, and you present all of this, and you simply dare them to find a fault. So what does that do? That means that they just sit there taking potshot after potshot at your presentation. And from the start, you've created an adversary - even if you've got good answers, you failed to influence them effectively. And you have to understand these people, these directors, they might be the most seen in the business, but they're all people, they all want to show how smart and useful they are. So give them the opportunity. Start with the oval goal of the organization. That's where the alignment comes from that you're talking about, Chris. Everybody shares those overall goals. You're all there to achieve the same thing. So start with that and ask to make certain that you and they are aligned essentially. So then the best strategy for influencing them is to present the broad outlines of your plans and ask for their help. Show them the key decision points and the challenges and they will start to weigh in, they will start to get involved. And so you get them to figure out how to make it work rather than sitting there looking for the holes in the floors. And once you, in my experience, once you achieve that, everybody's on the same side, that's when the magic can happen.
Chris: And that's where it starts to get interesting around details, but certainly not, you know, at the very beginning. Details matter, of course. It's not that we're saying, you know, details don't matter at all. Sure, they do. But it's how you approach the alignment problem for key decision-makers in your context. Because, you know, once you've got the alignment, of course, then it's about the details.
"So if you ask for a summary and people send you a huge full rundown with all the details, all the information, just simply looks to me like an attempt to justify that they've been working hard. But all it does is end up drowning in data and that is not effective communication. So learn to keep things simple."
Andy: Absolutely. And that leads me to another thing that frustrates me a lot, and I see a lot in business. As you say, the details have to be there. But one of the key things that I would say, a key skill is you've got to learn how to make things simple, especially when communicating. I still get very frustrated, even in some of the businesses I work with right now, Whenever I ask a simple question, instead of the answer, I get sent all the information on the subject. And that means I've got to read it all. I've got to come up with my own answer. So the ability to summarize and get to the point is a very important skill in business that is quite rare, I find. So if you ask for a summary and people send you a huge full rundown with all the details, all the information, just simply looks to me like an attempt to justify that they've been working hard. But all it does is end up drowning in data and that is not effective communication. So learn to keep things simple.
Chris: True - this is certainly not a key to effective communication. Why do you think that's happening? Do people wanna make the impression on you that they're kind of the smartest to do it, and they have full control of everything? Why do you think it happens?
Andy: A lot of these things come down to maturity. And I think as you are, becoming more senior in your role, people feel this need to justify their existence by how much work they do, and how many hours they put in. And of course, that's not really the point. The point of the job is to get results. It doesn't matter how hard you work, if you don't achieve the results, it's worthless. And I liken it to, I find, I work with businesses which are like a football team that they seem to think the goal of, sorry, that's not a good word, but the point of playing football is to pass the ball around to each other. Where in fact, the point of football is to score the goal. And I see that a lot. There are a lot of businesses where people are just passing the ball around to each other, and they think they're doing a full job, and they think they're doing a great job. And they miss the point that they haven't actually scored any goals yet.
"The point of the job is to get results. It doesn't matter how hard you work, if you don't achieve the results, it's worthless."
Chris: Hearing you speak about that, you know, like automatically triggers a word in my brain, in my brain, and that culture has that the concept of, you know, a corporate culture, whatever cloudy thing, you know, this is, but the concept is often not easy to understand and to grasp again, because it can seem cloudy, but it's often at the forefront of the innovation discussion. Let's make sure we have an innovation culture. Let's make sure everybody's contributing to the outcomes and so on. So if someone came to you and said they wanted to develop a culture of innovation, how would you respond to any?
Andy: Yeah, that's a good one. I think Chris, I first challenged those people about what they actually want to achieve. I think we're all guilty. We're inundated in the business world with these buzzwords and phrases. And it is easy to get sucked in. There's a kind of fear that your organization might be missing out in some way and fall behind its competitors. So you frequently hear the CEO announcing things like, “We want to become a more agile organization”. But you have to ask yourself, what does that actually mean? And it's the same thing when people ask for, we want a culture of innovation. It sounds great. It sounds like something we should all aspire to, but what does it actually mean? So I always start by stepping behind the phrase and I get them to think about what do you want to achieve. People usually associate a culture of innovation as a route to deliver growth in their business. So you need to start with the business strategy. Where and how is the business planning to grow? In order to deliver that, what behaviors do they want their employees to exhibit in order to achieve that? And having defined those behaviors, what mindsets do you want to instill in your employees in order to exhibit those behaviors? So for us, that's how it works. Objectives, behaviors, mindsets. And once you have that, you can build a training program to develop the mindset and the behaviors. And that's how you develop a culture. That's how we do it in TTIP Global.
Chris: So when a CEO says, I want to implement a culture of innovation, is that just another way of saying I want growth?
Andy: I believe so, because isn't that what the CEO is trying to achieve? That is why they're there. They're there to deliver profit. And profit comes from maintaining the core, but ultimately from growing from the core. So growth is always a huge aspect of what the CEO has on his mind all the time.
Chris: So, yeah, I would agree. And what are some of the maybe the, the non-negotiable elements of corporate culture, um, that, you know, really helps foster innovation and growth beyond, you know, the typical passwords? What are some of the principles of mindsets, habits, and routines that you think are non-negotiable to drive that innovation, that growth?
Andy: Okay. I think Chris, one of the basics is you've got to be prepared to listen. And not only that, you've got to be prepared to act on what you hear. So many companies start innovation initiatives, and they ask for ideas, but they never actually follow through when they get them. I recall very early in my career… So 35 years ago, my first job after my PhD, I mentioned I worked for this UK-based multinational company, a public limited company based in Windsor, just outside London. So I was recruited on the group graduate scheme and there were a dozen of us or so, we went for the introductory day at the headquarters in Windsor, just down from the castle. I think I was 24 at the time. So effectively this was my first day at work. So we sat in the boardroom having presentations from a string of senior Directors of the Business, which of course was great. But at the end of the day, the group head of HR, who'd organized all of this wonderful event for us, asked for feedback. He asked, “How can we improve it?”. And he said, “Don't be shy. You can say anything you want. It won't be held against you.”. So never want to hold back. I raised my hand and I suggested the day could be improved if the presenters had coordinated their presentations beforehand. Because each time we had a presentation, the first thing they presented was the corporate strategy. So effectively, we heard the corporate strategy six times that day. And of course, the guy did not like this at all. Even though he'd asked for feedback, even though he said it was a safe environment, he didn't really mean it. Not a great example to set for my first day at work, I think. And unfortunately, as I experienced plenty of times over the next 35 years since that day, that is a typical example of how things are in the workplace for many businesses right up to the board level. So if you're not prepared to listen and not prepared to act on what you hear, don't pretend you have a culture of innovation. You've got to put your egos to one side.
Chris: Yeah, that's a fair example, I guess, which you encounter all the time. That comes with experience. I agree. And talking about experience, let's talk about the next generation of people who are entering the business world right now. You as a professor, in your role as a professor, for example, teaching innovation and digital transformation, I'm looking for the core message that you aim to include and bring to your students about the role of business and technology in addressing these global challenges we have. What is it that you bring to them when you're teaching?
Building Effective Innovation and Business Cultures
Andy: Great question. I think the nice thing about teaching is it gets you out of your kind of day job. The details, as we talked about earlier, I think it's all too easy when you're in a business to be sucked into the language of the business and the day-to-day of the business. And that's your whole world. So when you have to step out, you have to teach somebody else about how it all fits together, how it really makes you think about the bigger picture, and of course technology in a broad sense. Of course, it's given us all, it's given humanity massive improvements in quality of life, and it's going to continue to do that on into the future. Technology has brought about massive social change, not always for the better, but there are inevitably side effects I think of technology, and you just have to look at the climate crisis we're in now. So as you’ve mentioned earlier, I've dedicated my whole career to developing and bringing new technologies to market. So whether it's physical or digital technologies, these are the things that are going to allow us to solve the world's environmental problems and continue to improve the quality of life for all of us.
But when it comes to teaching, I always stress that it's not actually the technology that shapes our future. It's the commercialization of that technology. There must be tens of thousands of great technologies all over the world, sitting on a lab bench somewhere, archived away in data servers. Technologies that will never see the light of day. And it's not because they're not great technologies. It's not that they couldn't deliver impact and benefits. It's because they don't have the right people to champion. They don't have the right people with relationships and the skill set to sell them. No technology is ever going to make an impact today unless somebody is going to make money from it. And that's the cold, hard reality. So whether it's MBA students at your business school or the corporate business leaders we work with at TTIP Global, my advice is always the same. If you want to make an impact, with technology, don't get caught up in the complexity of it. Yes, it's interesting how it works, but ultimately, it doesn't matter how it works. It's what it does that matters. Focus on what it does, not what it is. And I think a lot of technical founders struggle with that. And that's why they need a business partner who can interpret the founder's vision in a way that investors in the market and customers can relate to.
“No technology is ever going to make an impact today unless somebody is going to make money from it. And that's the cold, hard reality. There must be tens of thousands of great technologies all over the world. Technologies that will never see the light of day. And it's not because they're not great technologies. It's because they don't have the right people to champion.”
Chris: Yeah. They certainly do. Now, if we take your statement on this and the earlier discussion we had on culture, can we agree on something that says commercialization eats culture for breakfast? What do you think?
Andy: Maybe, that's a good one. That's a good output of our discussion, Chris, yeah. Let's work on that one, shall we?
The "guest-to guest" question
Chris: We certainly can. And Andy, that's been really insightful. And thanks for bringing your decades-long experience to this. Before we part ways, Andy, we do have a new tradition on this podcast. So the previous guest leaves a question for my next guest without knowing who my next guest is and what we're going to talk about. So my previous guest left a question for you, and it's actually an interesting one. I'm really curious to hear your answer to that. So the question that was left for you is, why do you do what you do? What is your why?
Andy: That is definitely a soul-searching question. Why do I do what I do? I ask myself that frequently. I think, Chris, I guess I touched on it over the last half an hour or so of our discussion. Innovators are always looking for something new, and they have to create their own new. That's the point of innovation. And when you start out early in your career, you kind of don't know that you haven't got a label. You just kind of drift into this, and you seem to have a propensity an interest, and an aptitude for this. So you go in this direction. And it's only when I stepped out of the world of employment, I did 30 years corporate. It was only when I stepped out of the world of employment, that I realized and reflected on what I do and started to ask myself, why do I do it? And I do it because I discovered I have this innate curiosity for everything. And I always felt a little uncomfortable sitting in one business, doing one thing. I was always kind of interested, oh, that looks interesting, or that looks interesting.
But the world of corporate kind of slaps you down and pushes you back into your pigeonhole. So I always felt a little uncomfortable with that. So now I'm in the big wide world of doing whatever I want. You realize there are no boundaries. The only boundaries are the ones you put up yourself. And that has been a very surprising journey for me. Who'd have thought 18 months ago, that I knew nothing about blockchain or crypto? I know nothing about that. And now with a great bunch of people, we have an amazing blockchain-based business. Always learning, always so many interesting things to do. And the challenge for me is always What is the limit, I think? How many new things can I fit in the day? It is a challenge. I think I'm probably at my max at the moment. So that's why I do it. I do it because I have this innate curiosity, and I'm not one to sit back and talk about it. I have to be involved. Furthermore, I have to roll my sleeves up and take part. That's the fun aspect of it.
Chris: That is so great to hear because it emphasizes a perspective on the opportunity. So there is an opportunity to do things for the better. Develop new technologies, commercialize them, and help things get better. Decarbonizing is one thing. Teaching is another thing. So it's quite plentiful. But it emphasizes opportunity and not limitation, which is a very powerful distinction to make. So, thanks for sharing this. That's a good point, yeah. Andy, I really, really appreciate it.
Andy: Very well said, Chris, yeah. It is about opportunity.
Chris: And that's it, really, for this episode. Andy, again, thank you so much, really, for being my guest. Thanks so much.
Andy: Thank you, Chris. You're doing an amazing job. Keep it up.
Chris: Hope to see you soon. Take care. And to everybody listening or watching, if you enjoyed this episode, simply leave us a comment on this episode or just drop us an email. That's it. Thanks for listening. Take care and bye-bye.
About the authors
Dr. Christian Mühlroth is the host of the Innovation Rockstars podcast and CEO of ITONICS. Prof. Dr. Andy Wynn is the CEO of TTIP Global and Professor at the IE Business School in Madrid.
The Innovation Rockstars podcast is a production of ITONICS, provider of the world’s leading Operating System for Innovation. Do you also have an inspiring story to tell about innovation, foresight, strategy, or growth? Then shoot us a note!
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